Character Creation Cast

Series 34.3 - Tide Breaker with Nick Butler [Designer] (Discussion)

Episode Summary

Welcome to the final episode of Series 34 and 2020, everyone! This series we are covering the modular world building, action RPG Tide Breaker with designer Nick Butler! This episode we’ll be discussing the character creation process as well as dishing up some final outtakes of the year.

Episode Notes

Welcome to the final episode of Series 34 and 2020, everyone! This series we are covering the modular world building, action RPG Tide Breaker with designer Nick Butler! This episode we’ll be discussing the character creation process as well as dishing up some final outtakes of the year.


Leave us reviews in any, or all, of these places:

Character Creation Cast on Apple Podcasts (The best place to leave reviews for us)

Character Creation Cast on Podchaser

Character Creation Cast on Stitcher

Character Creation Cast on Facebook

Guests and Projects:

Nick Butler @FallOnMyBlade

Games discussed this episode:

Tide Breaker




Our Podcast:

Character Creation Cast:

Amelia Antrim:

Ryan Boelter:

Our Website:

Our Network:

Network Patreon:

Episode Transcription

Transcripts Automatically Generated - Not 100% Accurate

Ryan Boelter  0:00  

Welcome to the final episode of series 34 and the final episode of 2020. Everyone, we welcome back Nick Butler to discuss the modular world building game tiebreaker. But before we get to that, we have some announcements. First up, I'm the only one here because it's pretty late on a Sunday, and it did not want to bother Amelia. But I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to the world builders fundraiser. Together, we were able to unlock quite a few fantastic bonuses for the network, which I am very, very thrilled to hear on both campaign, Sky Jack's and sky Jack's couriers call with some wonderful guest spots by Patrick Rothfuss. Next up, I also wanted to thank everyone who tuned in to my A Tale of twinkling off stream this last Friday where we're playing a campaign using the game that I'm working on with amor amor, as kimera. If you didn't tune in, you missed out on some fantastic citrus Miss festivities before a very surprise ending. For now, we've got a two week break. And we'll be streaming again, every other Friday starting January 8 2021. You can tune in at 7:30pm Central Time that era games, or you can catch up on the previous streams at the same location or on era dot games. And I think that's all that we have for announcements for today's episode. Stick around after the show for the call to action and some outtakes as usual as, as is tradition on the third episode of the series. And until then, let's get on with the show. Enjoy.


Ryan Boelter  2:44  

Welcome back to our discussion episode. Last time we created characters for tiebreaker this episode we will be discussing the character creation process. We are very thrilled to welcome back Nick Butler designer of this game. Do you want to reintroduce yourself again for everyone at home and tell us a little bit about the character you made last episode Nick?


Nick Butler  3:07  

What's good everybody is


Amelia Antrim  3:15  

doing great.


Nick Butler  3:16  

Have some lemonade and some reheated Domino's


Amelia Antrim  3:20  

oh I was eating some garden breadsticks earlier it's pretty


Nick Butler  3:28  

man like that's the everything in the kitchen sink huh? Yeah, so my character is net based them off a tn from Dragonball Z you know, we got the whole Dragon Ball Z z staples for get the key blast in the mirror image techniques and the punching rocks and make them explode when your best friend dies because they self destruct and on some sans back, huh? Like, you know, like we got it. We got all the bells and whistles in three abilities. Oh,


Ryan Boelter  4:01  



Amelia Antrim  4:05  

Ryan, tell us what the character you made.


Ryan Boelter  4:07  

So I made krimson stainer a magical girl, elemental magic and fused martial artist, who's also kind of a brainy person in her day job. And she's able to transform, which really like ups her power level for a little bit. She does some fire punching to really do some damage and then kind of throws off the opponent's with some stunts and exhaustion from her lightning kicks. So yeah, she's pretty she's pretty sweet.


Nick Butler  4:45  

It's a really good kind of transform. You're exhausted. Okay, hit me. Yeah. Oh, you can't.


Unknown Speaker  4:57  

I love it.


Ryan Boelter  4:57  

Absolutely. And Amelia, how about your character.


Amelia Antrim  5:01  

Well to get back at Ryan for making another Magical Girl, I made another character who fights with a katana quick and dirty get in get out. Um, I started with the concept of having somebody who like previously was a champion sort of fell out of favor and now we're on our way back up to the top. But most of my abilities revolve around getting it and quickly beating people in initiative, dealing damage being gone before they can do anything to me. So I did name them Falcons Swift. I love it with Swift, which I don't know if it's as good as illuminance edge, but it's up there.


Ryan Boelter  5:46  

It's pretty good.


Amelia Antrim  5:47  

That's pretty good.


Ryan Boelter  5:48  

I agree. All right. Well, let's go ahead and dive right into a segment that we are calling d 20. For your thoughts on the 25th.


Amelia Antrim  5:58  

In this segment, we talked to our guests about their thoughts on the character creation process, how it relates to the system and to other games.


Ryan Boelter  6:05  

Yeah, but first, we'd like to get to know our guests a little better before we begin. Can you tell us how you got into RPGs in the first place, Nick? Oh, man,


Nick Butler  6:17  

playing this for a minute RPGs and stuff I bought second edition Starter Edition for dungeons and dragons and GM for my brother and sister one time they ended up like killing the Wyvern with a landslide which was a which was pretty cool. Oh,


Ryan Boelter  6:32  



Nick Butler  6:32  

They weren't supposed to survive that fight. If I recall how that module works out, like you're not supposed to fight the waiver directly. Because it's like, I think it was like a CR five and they're like CR one yeah, level one characters in that starter thing. But they're like, how about rocks fall in the bad guys die?


Amelia Antrim  6:53  

Right on the first first session? Yeah.


Nick Butler  6:57  

Yeah, so it's like a set of rocks while everybody dies. It was just just those that oppose them. Again, shout out to my brother and sister. Were very, very family friendly game here. Okay. Then we focused Yeah, but beyond that, like, I ended up not playing d&d for a while after that. And I found a game called fresh by Aaron cluey. Clooney, he made thrash thrash was a really cool, it was like an anime RPG. And it was based off of mech tunzi Mike Pon Smith, and it stuff right from cyber cyberpunk, whatever. And it had a similar like what I like to call a la carte system, where you pair up your modifiers and whatnot, and you make special attacks, like based off of that, tiebreaker, kind of like took that and made it more of like a general approach kind of thing with our three abilities. Because our abilities are supposed to represent anything we're infraction was specifically like, this is your paduka this is your dragon punch, okay. And it does just the dragon punch, it's rising, it has flame on it. So you rise up and you set people on fire and they fall over. Right. Whereas you've experienced from the last episode tiebreaker kind of takes that it does a little bit differently. But yeah, so fresh was like, kind of like my eye opener because I was like, wow, one dude did that. Right? Like this, like 100 in like 60 page document, I think it was or something like that. With like, all of these endless possibilities. And there. It's not a class based system or anything. And so like teenage me, like, basically dug through that book. And I was just building stuff for years, like, long after he abandoned the project, right. And like, but I fell in love with it. Because to me that game was a cool classic. Of course Colt might just be me, but like it's amazing. Well, yeah, like I had some fond memories of so a couple of guys in college that we played it. One of the more interesting characters was this guy that we made that he fought with a giant monster truck tire attached to a chain. Oh, boy. That was the stuff that we were doing in thrash. Right. And I wanted to kind of like, bring it over to more like a modernized kind of stuff, right? Yeah. Cuz thrash was like extremely country. It was like a lot of math, like different die sizes and things and like, like, mechanically, it's kind of a mess with the numbers. But uh, but like, all the ideas and stuff that you get from that system is just beautiful. Yeah, like, I got into RPGs like playing d&d. And then I started finding like, little hints that there wasn't in the system beyond what wizards had put out for us in life like White Wolf and all those folks at bookstores. You know, and we Only a couple of years ago, like I saw the indie scene, like blow up on the internet or whatever, but like, back in, like the early 2000s, when we're all like on dial up and stuff. You know, where I'd started, like really getting into playing them like, like, more seriously with people. Yeah, it started with thrash. And then I just kind of move on from there.


Ryan Boelter  10:20  

Very cool.


Amelia Antrim  10:21  

You mentioned in our earlier episodes that you've kind of been forced into that GM role. But when you sit down to make characters when you're playing a game, what is your personal process?


Nick Butler  10:33  

Well, my personal process is pretty much written down in the get in the book, I like to start off with a cool concept and then see if the game supports it or not. Yeah. And if it doesn't, I just try to make my character fit as much as possible to, to the games concentrates, you know, where it's like, if I want, I have four that can jump over buildings and things like it's kind of hard to do that in Pathfinder, but like, you know, I'll find a way. Like if I have to rescan like the fly spells will only last for a turn or something. Just allow me to jump in and give me like a turn of feather fall or something like, you know, we do something like that, we'll find a feat that lets me do it. Yeah. But uh, yeah, I just like digging through my books and just like seeing what options are available and seeing if I can make concepts around that the other way around, you know, so I ever started for concept or find something that like really tickles my fancy and see if I can build a character around that one thing. Nice.


Ryan Boelter  11:35  

Great, cool. So getting to tiebreaker how do we think character creation in this game stacks up to other systems that we've played?


Nick Butler  11:46  

I think that tiebreakers character system is a lot more open ended than a lot of games on market. It's pretty fast for it's all what I like to call its weight class. Yeah. You know, where you have like, very soft games. And then you have like, rules medium games. And then like really rules, heavy games, like like, say, like, Shadowrun?


Ryan Boelter  12:11  

Yeah, right.


Nick Butler  12:12  

Where a tiebreaker kind of fits more in the rules medium. Like it's leaning towards life, because the math is very easy. Like, its pluses, there's no negatives, there's no multiplication, division, whatever, whatever, it's just plus one, this. And the plus ones are not, like particularly common like, you, you'll end up getting more rerolls than more math. Yeah, the way the game is set up. So like, on that crunch side, you know, we're, we're right in the middle of the road, okay. Um, and as far as like making most of your character, like you get your concept, you get your, your jobs quirks here, you roll your stats, and yet, pick a couple of things out of a list for for your quirks and your standout features. And then when you get to your abilities, like it's either really easy, if you have a, if you have a solid concept, or you're already have read the game once or twice, you know, the understand how the mechanics work, or it can be or it can take a while. Because it's a game with a lot of options, like I there's no way to, like, talk my way around that, you know, then people can get like analysis paralysis, if they don't have like a very solid, like foothold on what they want, you know, but the game provides pretty much everything that you can want, like, in the realms of like, I want to kick this guy in this particular way. You know, or like, I want to be this kind of Ninja, I want to be this kind of politician, you know, I'm saying, like, we have mechanics that fit those kind of things. Like I was saying in the previous episode tiebreaker does three things very well, like we do fighting very well. We do negotiation stuff very well. And we do espionage. Okay. In that order, actually.


Ryan Boelter  14:05  

Yeah, I really like how you can go in with the concept and build the abilities and all the mechanic portion of your characters through those concepts. But I also like that you're, you're able to reverse that, like looking at the cool stuff that you want, and then pulling concepts out of the different combinations. Sounds like it, you can put a lot of time into that second way of doing it and and get a really interesting character out of it if you looked at mechanics first. But I really liked that it's an option, right? Yeah. You're not like forced down. Okay, you have to do a concept first. And then you can do this. Or you have to choose your two things per ability and figure out what sort of ability that makes? Uh huh.


Amelia Antrim  15:02  

Yeah, I definitely think that, like, once you have a little bit of familiarity with it, like, which, obviously, the hope is now after people listen to this, they'll have a little bit of a sense of like, Okay, this is what the process of character creation looks like. I think now having done it once, it would be a lot quicker for me. Um, you know, I do, I do have a problem. When there's like, too many choices, I get a little bit like overwhelmed and my pain shuts down. Um,


Nick Butler  15:33  

yeah, but not the first problem. I


Amelia Antrim  15:36  

think that's one of those things of like, what are you looking for in a game and like, you know, for some people, that's going to be like, a highlight is like, I have so many choices, I can do whatever I want. I could, you know, and I definitely think I prefer having a huge list of options to somebody being like, I don't know, make it up, because then I go, uh, like, I've forgotten my name and the days of the week, and like, I just like my mind blank, no thoughts head empty. I like having some options to pick from, you know, and I think having done it once, now, I would be like, more comfortable with, like, where things are and like, what things I need to pick?


Ryan Boelter  16:17  



Nick Butler  16:18  

Yeah, I like giving people the ability to just, you know, just do what you want to do, right. But I also like having like grounded options for people, because I understand that people can fall under either of those, like, spectrums, you know, I mean, and like I was saying about faith, the other episode is that it's really more like, do what you want to do. But if you don't know what you want to do that the game is very light, right? There's not much game under, like conflict, the least with accelerated, right. But with tiebreaker, I was like, What if I took that feeling and just gave it just a tad bit more weight? Huh? Yeah, right there like a little bit of more like, Look, this is exactly what you can do this game. Like, at a bare bare minimum bare bones level, like you have all of these options. Yeah, those options are not the limit. And that's not me saying, Oh, well, it's RPG. So you can do whatever you want. Right? Like, like, no, like, you literally just do like, whatever you want. Like, yeah, I mean, like, like, we've got, like, all of the like, supporting mechanics that helped you just say, hey, like, what if I just wanted to play like a fighter jet or something yummy?


Amelia Antrim  17:23  

Yeah. little Lego bricks to like, build the belt.


Nick Butler  17:29  

Yeah, that's a big old Lego brick game system. Like, you can build like anything within the realms of like, your standard action movie stuff. And a little bit more like, you know, because like, I like things over dastard movies, but you know, like, my movie watching interests, like I typically like, like psychodrama, like philosophical drama, so psychological thrillers and stuff like that. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, I like spy thrillers I like like martial arts, films and things. So I put a little bit of me and so like everything. Yeah, right. Like, and I like to take myself as a pretty average guy. As far as my viewing. Viewing interests go.


Amelia Antrim  18:06  

Yeah, well, let me tell you about that before, too. That's what's wonderful about the world of RPGs is that there is like something for everybody. And I don't think that there's a whole lot of impetus to like, make a thing that isn't you like you should make a thing that like, reflects something that you want to play, because that's where your passion is, you know, like, yeah, if you don't love romance games, I don't think that you're the person to make me a romance game button. Like, that's maybe


Unknown Speaker  18:32  



Nick Butler  18:33  

Yeah, I'm gonna try this despite myself, but like,


Amelia Antrim  18:39  

but like, maybe there are people that are better suited to that. And that's again, totally okay.


Nick Butler  18:45  

That's gonna be one of my game jam projects is just, like, make a romance game. I'm gonna sit there and like, because like this, the fact of the matter is, I do like watching chick flicks, right? It's not my, it's not my bread and butter genre. But like, you know, I've watched like, 51st dates and stuff, which is not really a chiclet per se, but like, you know, like, you know, I've watched like, Legally Blonde, and, like, the notebook. Like, I watch sappy stuff, and comedies and things and like, I want to make game mechanics around, because I like game mechanics. Right? So, like, and I take a lot of my inspiration from the, from the media that I watch, you know, I like to look at that thing and say, Hey, I'm gonna turn that into a game mechanic.


Ryan Boelter  19:26  

Yeah, there you go.


Amelia Antrim  19:27  

And I like when stuff like that shines through in games when you're like, Okay, I can see, like, where this came from, because as a player, I'm like, Oh, I know what I'm supposed to do with that. Then when there's like that parallel Comparison, where it's like, you're like, it's like action movies. And I'm like, Okay, I know what I'm supposed to do with these mechanics. And I know what this game is meant to look like and what kind of character is going to thrive in this kind of game? Like, this is not the sort of game for me to make, like, I don't know like a plucky lawyer who falls in love. Like, I don't know. That's like that's for and that's okay. You


Nick Butler  20:06  

could definitely do a plucky lawyer. Like I don't think the love focus would be the tiebreaker would a right suit on too much like it's it's like you could kind of do that as like a sidewalk kind of thing. But right. Like, we don't have a lot of like, like, courting kind of mechanics and there's nothing for like, oh, I've made a mistake. And now I have to like run into the rain to meet you at the airport for it with a little sign of a boombox that says I love you playing our favorite song, but we met which is a callback to the beginning of the movie when we had our little quirky BBQ.


Ryan Boelter  20:39  

What are you saying that romance movies are formulaic? I'm saying all


Nick Butler  20:43  

movies are formulaic. I am. I am a huge advocate of TV Tropes that work. Oh, yeah. Um, and so through my, like, extensive, like wiki diving of TV Tropes, like I have developed a very large vocabulary for just, like the different things that appear in movies, because that's what tvtropes offers. It's just like a, like a lightly academic, but like, you know, sort of, like, light hearted kind of approach to just movie analysis. Well, fiction media analysis in general, so like, I think in tvtropes terms for like everything, which is why I was like, Hey, I meet cute for like, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Yeah. Cuz like, you know, cuz me cute, sir. Like a very staple trope in the in the romance genre. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, you'd have like that guy. He's like, having a bad day. Like, he's like, his girlfriend's terrible the woman but suddenly likey just like walking around. And manic pixie dream girl chick is like, all like, hey, like, you're really stuffy and stuff. And like, I like Kpop and whatever. So why don't you come to this karaoke with me? And the guy's like, well, I don't do that. Like, I like to just drink lemonade at home and Blake starts, iron my pants. She's like, dude, you need to get a life. And I have like, absolutely no realistic way that I would be attracted to you in any sort of situation, other than this romance plot. But I have decided that I like you. Which is why the manic pixie dream girl is also a terrible trope for amongst other reasons, but like, well, it works. It works. tropes are not bad. Yeah, yeah. Which is also another TV trope entry.


Amelia Antrim  22:40  

So how do we think that the process of character creation in this game sort of sets expectations? How does it tell you what playing this game is


Nick Butler  22:48  

going to be like, about the character generation thing, and it's just gonna tell you about this game is going to be very much focused on you being good at what you do? And you're probably going to punch them. Yeah. And you've got options, lots of options for what punching something means you've got options for how exactly what happens after you've hit something, what happens if you miss like, on ways to get out of buys ways to get into by it's like, character creation is going to tell you that, like, Look, you've got options, work with them. You're you've got what we didn't cover in the last episode, where our hooks in our questions and things, which I'll go over briefly here is a tiebreaker characters are motivated. They're extremely motivated people. They're just these are not the kind of folks that just sit down and play video games all day, and then do nothing about it. You know, I mean, wishes me in real life. I'm not a tiebreaker. Right. I just wrote it. You know, but it's like, you have goals. And these goals, pick up questions. And the questions are basically like, like having that Saturday morning cartoon announcer or like, literally, because my play testers like, Can you put the DBZ announcer as a mechanic into the game? And I said, Maybe I'll give it a shot. And then I did. So like, we literally have a next time on Heartbreaker. Will this character fulfill her dream of overcoming the Dark Lord, blah, blah, blah, find out another time that we meet up? And also here's your keys and things are the session. But like, yeah, so you have a will I beat the Dark Lord, as one of your questions. And that question is tied to a hook of I need to save the world or something like that. Okay. And when you answer those questions, it fills the hook fulfills the hook in and you get more hope, maximum hope to your party, school and stuff. But like, those questions are part of the full character creation experience after you've built your scenario, right and your GM has this big, bad evil guy that has all these abilities and these minions and artifacts and like there's a lot to the GM session of the game that we didn't cover in the last episode. But it's a lot of tools to make this world and to make your villain, like, larger than life, right? Like, you want a mastermind that's just gonna like twirler mustache and tie people to the railroad. You know? Like, we've got that, you know, yeah, like characters creation is referencing all of these possibilities that could happen. Yeah. Like through that?


Ryan Boelter  25:32  

Absolutely. So how do you think the the process of creating the world together affects the character creation process, then? Well,


Nick Butler  25:41  

it gives you all of the answers to all of your personal questions. To what do we need? Like, what what do what should I be building towards? Right? Because we built towards Dragonball Z? were like, I've been only one of the three of us that extensively watched it built a DBZ character. Yeah. But from based on what I told y'all, you built slightly science fiction martial arts inspired characters.


Ryan Boelter  26:06  

Yeah, right.


Nick Butler  26:07  

But that's what we that's what we work towards, because we what we did in that first, like, five minutes or so was kind of do the scenario generation but very diluted.


Amelia Antrim  26:17  

Explain to Amelia what DBZ is?


Nick Butler  26:21  

Yeah, effectively. But like, when you're doing a scenario generation, like you're picking all of the things that you want to see in the game. And that's gonna affect your characters, because like, hey, like, I want to play a game where they're cyborgs, and giant monsters or something like that. Right? And so you take those things, and you take all of those ideas that you have in your head based on what you know about cyborgs and giant monsters, and you build your characters around that.


Unknown Speaker  26:50  

Yeah, right.


Nick Butler  26:51  

So it's like, Hey, I have hidden compartments, and my arms is one of my abilities and they shoot missiles, or something like that. Yeah, like this one is a is an eye laser. This one is like a machine gun turret on my other arm, like this three characters for your, your like kind of like pseudo Terminator kind of thing. And like Amelia might build something with a grappling hook and like sleep dust or something. And then an escape ability so she can have like a support Hunter. I'm sorry, it kind of just stuffed you in that role. Like this sets us on my part my bed.


Amelia Antrim  27:23  

Right. character I usually play the backstabbing friend.


Ryan Boelter  27:29  

That's true.


Nick Butler  27:29  

I honestly play support characters a lot myself. Um, I I actually built I don't know if you saw it in the functions list. There's a lot of Rhodesia in that game. Because I play robes I play takes in like healers like when I play MMOs and stuff or Overwatch like I like to it's kind of characters like I like


Amelia Antrim  27:49  

to play Overwatch. I always play healers, but an RPG is I will never ever, ever play them.


Nick Butler  27:55  

That's because healing is not proactive at all. Yeah, well, I'm talking about in, in RPGs. Right, like, because like an RPG is like you're healing a character, you're basically wasting a turn, like you're better off just killing your target, like, just from tangible perspective, and then heal them afterwards, you know, which is like one of the


Amelia Antrim  28:18  

cool, it's never like,


Nick Butler  28:19  

yeah, like, you're not really doing anything, you're just kind of


Amelia Antrim  28:23  

undoing, I guess,


Nick Butler  28:25  

on doing something that happened, which like it's Yeah, semi common GM advice to like, not do that kind of thing. But the healer role in most RPGs is exactly that. We're in tiebreaker, we kind of covered that with like having things that remove attrition, but also give you a night and stuff based on how much attrition you lost, or whatever. So like, being a healer and tiebreaker is fun. Like, you know, cuz it's a proactive thing. Yeah. Or we have reactive It was like just increasing the defense to the point where like, you can't touch me like your magical girl did that. Which is kind of like you went from the utility, which is mostly support based functions down there. But you made a monster out of that. Right, because I think that utility characters should be monstrous.


Ryan Boelter  29:13  



Nick Butler  29:15  

But yeah, like that's, that's just kind of my spin as a as a guy that plays a lot of sport characters and video games. You know, like, I like support. I like tanks. I like rooks. That's typically what I do. Like I I definitely play the two handed barbarian that's screaming bloody murder occasionally, too. I'm not gonna lie because that's my personality. But when I'm in a group setting, I usually go for the role that's needed because I know somebody else might have more fun being that preserver. And somebody might actually be better than me gasp as the Berserker but like a lot of people don't like play sport. I do. like helping people.


Amelia Antrim  29:54  

And we're gonna ask you the hard question and then after that question, Do you think is one of the flaws of this system? And then what do you feel like it's one of the best parts.


Nick Butler  30:06  

One of my flaws with the system is that I have way too many options. Mm hmm. And it's very, very easy to have character. I mean, I have analysis paralysis in my game, like that is one of the biggest deterrents to tiebreaker is that it's off putting if you haven't played RPGs before, unless you're with somebody that's pretty like, like, semi knowledgeable of like, the, the media, right? Like, my book, my former boss has taught it to his kids. And they've picked it up and they're like, 10 minus, yeah. So like, it's easy to pick up once you've read it. Yeah. But like, it's as much as much as I try to make it very, like every man kind of speech is like, what we're telling stories you do dice, you do this, you add these abilities together, you do you do things, right. But um, it's not. It's not like say, jeez, I'm trying to think of like something like, really, really simple to play. See, like, Rice's, or something like that might be might be easier. My game. My racist is just kind of like you, you have like a quirk. And then you have like, a couple of things, roll some dice, go. Or like, like lasers and feelings? Yeah.


Ryan Boelter  31:26  

Oh, yeah.


Nick Butler  31:27  

Would it be like much easier to play in tiebreaker? Like, because that's as late as you can get?


Ryan Boelter  31:31  

Yeah. Yeah. I


Amelia Antrim  31:32  

mean, is that something that you you feel like is just a trade off that you have to make? Because of the kind of game you want to have? Or is that something that you're kind of looking for ways to do something about


Nick Butler  31:42  

both, but I'm leaning more towards? It's a trade off? Yeah. Like, if I can min max, my ease of use versus the depth of play? I will do as best as I can. And I've done that, over the last like five or so updates I've done over the last two years. But um, when you're making games like this, like, it's very much a design choice you have to make implicitly, absolutely, this is a very intentional that I've made that choice because like, Hey, I understand that there's a lot of options, and that's going to cause analysis paralysis. But if I don't have a lot of options, you don't have a lot options. The only other thing I could do is make the game as extremely. What is the word I'm looking for?


Ryan Boelter  32:34  



Nick Butler  32:36  

that kind of death. Death like it's simple, but like you keep, like stacking upon it was like a couple of atoms that can be used the best different ways. Mm hmm. But it's the term is slipping for me right now. But um, but it's a specific type of design that like you, you build, like very few options that can be used in hundreds of ways. Oh, Supergiant Games, transistor, emergent complexity. That's the word. Oh, there you go. Like, yeah, yeah, where you go for emerging complexity, like, but doing emergent complexity in a way that's intentional. is very hard. Yeah. I'm tiebreaker tries that as much as possible. Because like ultimately, tiebreakers roll a couple of D sets for your pool, add some dice if you do some stunts. And then you have functions that change how often you add power that will how often you reroll, yeah, for the most part, like and then movement. But that's the game like in a nutshell, like we build on a couple of very simple concepts. And then we add a ton of options that alter dose to your specific preferences. So like emergent complexity is a goal that I have been doing. But like you can do what I did in that regard, but limited to even more choices, but you would have to have those choices be extremely divergent from each other. Right. And I think I mentioned supergiants transistor when I was talking about emergent complexity like before. Yeah, cuz transistor is amazing because like you have I think, like 12 different functions in that game that get paired up like think it's like two or three different combinations, right? Okay. Which is kind of how I came up with tiebreakers ABC system. But those two or three different combinations equal hundreds of different combinations right that fulfill dozens of dozens and dozens of play styles in ways that were like you can look at those and go wow, okay, so like I can make this missile rebound or I can not even make this a missile anymore and just make my sword explode on things right. If you haven't played transistor, it's it's fantastic. The ability design of that game is like it's triple A, I mean Supergiant Games. It's not a small company, but like You know, they're


Amelia Antrim  35:01  

comparatively pretty small. Yeah,


Nick Butler  35:03  

they're not as like big as something like Ubisoft or something like, like you would never get that kind of design out of like Assassin's Creed. You know? I mean, like Assassin's Creed is triple A game. It's huge. It's a blockbuster. It's like you're going around Ancient Greece and now like, wherever Valhalla takes place. You know, I'm saying but like, but like that, the very simple concepts that supergiant does in their games, because all of their games have that same kind of design philosophy.


Amelia Antrim  35:38  

Yeah, I mean, I think has a lot of that to have like, a couple of boons and then you start stacking them and they start, like combining to be different things until like, you have, like, the pinnacle of


Nick Butler  35:49  

that. It's not even the boom starting there.


Amelia Antrim  35:51  

This is a reference that I get. Oh,


Nick Butler  35:54  

yeah, with Hades. It's four actions.


Amelia Antrim  35:58  

Yeah, pack your dash,


Nick Butler  36:00  

dash a special in a cast. And those are changed by your weapons. They're changed by your keepsakes. And by your booze and by dateless like, cuz dateless like he's a boon. Yes. But like,


Unknown Speaker  36:17  



Nick Butler  36:18  

yeah, he's like a, like a force modifier basically, like, like, and it really starts to shine like, especially when you use the adamant rail, right? Like that's a craft. Yeah. Because epigraph starts as a machine gun, right? for very small clip, and a grenade launcher, okay. And then you have your regular cast, you have your dash. But with daedelus, you can turn epigraphs grenade launcher into one giant cluster bomb, like a big rocket. Or you could turn it into a fast rocket, or you could turn it into like, eight rockets at once. And that's just what you can do on your cue. If you're playing a PC. Right, that's not touching the rifle apart. That's just a special it then you add boons to that. So let's say we went with the six different cluster bomb sings and then we added Zeus to it. Right, you know,


Amelia Antrim  37:11  

like the combos of things where it's like, if they have this condition, then this one happens.


Unknown Speaker  37:18  

All right.


Amelia Antrim  37:20  

Good game. Great. I did not think I would like it. And I love it.


Nick Butler  37:29  

Yeah, Hades is definitely a fantastic game. Shout out to Supergiant Games,


Amelia Antrim  37:34  

one that my son and I have been bonding over. Like, we sit at the kitchen table and plays together and like he's like, Oh, I got this one. Which boon Should I pick for this? Like, it's so good. It's so good.


Nick Butler  37:45  

And it's assess stability options are top notch.


Amelia Antrim  37:48  

Pretty great poly relationships, which


Nick Butler  37:51  

is fantastic. It's very LGBT friendly to which I'm very much for like that's kind of one of my my big platforms is like, I feel like everybody deserves to be a badass. And like, that's one of tiebreakers like main standpoints is that I want people to feel badass while playing my games. You know, I'm saying so like, whoever you are, like, if you have a disability or if you're gay or whatever, like doesn't matter if you're black.


Amelia Antrim  38:18  

You can't see.


Nick Butler  38:21  

Follow me on Twitter, look at my profile picture. Understand why that joke hits hard.


Amelia Antrim  38:27  

Hands that went along with it, but it was great.


Nick Butler  38:31  

But you know, that being able to talk like that, like at the table. Like, I feel like it's important for me, you know, I'm saying like, having my game say like, Look, you're welcome. You know, I mean is important to me, that's that goes into my game design. It goes into like, Look, this is a collaborative world building experience. Like back in the back section of my GM session. Like I say, keep it broke. It's not just have to hashtag okay, but I want everybody to feel like a hero. Or a heroine or hero, whatever your gender pronoun turns that into. I don't know exactly how that works, but I want you to feel good. Okay.


Unknown Speaker  39:10  

Yeah, Hero hero.


Nick Butler  39:13  

Yeah, like, oh, man, that's crazy on my part, my bad.


Ryan Boelter  39:21  

I love you. Okay.


Nick Butler  39:25  

But yeah, I want you to feel good. Like that's, that's, that's who I am. And that's how I want my games to shine in that way. Like, you're gonna play my game because you're a badass. I mean, that's it. But um, well, that's topic. Excellent.


Ryan Boelter  39:39  

Well, let's pull them into one of my favorite portions of the show. The fanfiction portion, where we get to figure out what brought these people together and what do we what do we do? Once we're together? What sort of shenanigans do we get up to? Yeah, what is it?


Amelia Antrim  39:58  

What is our hook for this group of people? Why are we together?


Nick Butler  40:01  

Yeah. How did the actual DBZ character come up with the space ninja? And no magical girl?


Ryan Boelter  40:11  

Well, okay, so abelia your character What is it Falcon swift?


Amelia Antrim  40:16  



Ryan Boelter  40:17  

You're effectively coming out of retirement. Right,


Amelia Antrim  40:21  

right. I mean, I feel like there's got to be some kind of like tournament. arc.


Nick Butler  40:27  

Yeah, there's definitely a tournament or something. quirky likes be group.


Amelia Antrim  40:31  

Yeah. My title.


Nick Butler  40:35  

It's just like there as an insidious evil that takes something more than screaming really loud. And shooting giant blast that's going to dig its trails into, like tendrils into the earth, and, and take control of the world. And the only people that could stop this is, for some reason, not Goku. Because all he does is scream and throw giant beams.


Ryan Boelter  41:06  

So and so if we, okay, so I like the concept of a tournament. What if it's like a like a trio tournament, like a group tournament, where you have to have a trio to enter. And we need to get to the top of the tournament. As I'm thinking, Nick, your character, and I probably knew each other before the tournament. And I want to say we were kind of under the idea of, Hey, we need to get to the top to stop. So and So who's also in the tournament? And yeah, and maybe that's where we reached out like, we need a third. Who better can we get then Falcon swift? The the former champion from, you know, the singles division. I don't know what you want to call it.


Unknown Speaker  41:54  

Mm hmm.


Nick Butler  41:56  

I like that. Um, I would say


Amelia Antrim  41:59  

is a talk show host. I don't know. Yeah.


Nick Butler  42:01  

Yeah. That um, the Falcon swift was doing a segment on a on the new martial artists in ghost fighting. Because you know, niets Panesar? Just Yeah, that's right. Right. And you're a magical girl, which I feel like just as as a correlations in my own character also kind of fights. Like evil spirits and stuff. Yeah. So we do that. And Emilio's character kind of like gets us together. And she, through her various interviews and things has found that there is an under lurking threat within the tournament, but we have to go under the guise of just being regular martial artists and stuff. And while we do that, we explore the deep underpinnings of the secret society that have been taking the ghost of defeated characters and like, making them possess the different martial artists and stuff.


Amelia Antrim  43:02  

Oh, yeah. That and spirit.


Nick Butler  43:06  

Yeah, and through that, they will eventually overcome the Z fighters like Goku Piccolo and fajita in them, right. And they because all of their powers happen to be extremely, like direct damage types, with the exception of Master Roshi who's indisposed. Because otherwise, you know, like, he would just solve the pot on himself because he will contaminate waves. But maybe it's just too much. And like, we end up having to have Roshi, like, help us like he teaches us a little bit of his his ways to, to contain demons and evil spirits and things and like, maybe I'm one of rashis students, and that's how I got through it. And like where she's currently away in, in space somewhere, probably still during a tournament power or where all of them are gone. Okay. Yeah, I mean, and so back home, we're solving this problem because every other cast member on the show is gone. Okay. Well, we're gonna see


Ryan Boelter  44:07  

the see Yeah. I like that. Oh, yeah. I think that would work.


Nick Butler  44:13  

Yeah, we're team see, we're definitely the filler.


Ryan Boelter  44:16  

Is this is this where we get our own spin off? Or attempted spin off?


Amelia Antrim  44:20  

Yeah, I think so. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  44:22  

I think so.


Amelia Antrim  44:22  

Or at least a made for TV movie.


Nick Butler  44:25  

Yeah. Dragonball Z for ghost.


Ryan Boelter  44:30  

There you go. I like that. Yeah, I think that will work out and then


Amelia Antrim  44:33  

titles. That's what this would be called. Dragonball Z.


Ryan Boelter  44:35  

Yep. Yeah, no, that's, that's great. Um, I don't know. I don't think I don't think there's anything we really need to add that that's pretty, you


Amelia Antrim  44:45  

know, I feel like we nailed it.


Ryan Boelter  44:47  

Yeah, goodness. Yeah.


Nick Butler  44:49  

Pretty good at improvising stuff.


Ryan Boelter  44:50  

There you go. All right, well, then let's get into our advancement discussion and take it up level. Take it up a level


Unknown Speaker  45:01  

I like that.


Amelia Antrim  45:02  

So in this segment, we cover character advancement and character growth within the system. So let's start by the mechanical part. And when characters quote unquote, level up, what does that look like? How does that work? Oh, we don't have


Nick Butler  45:20  

a level based system, but we definitely have progression. And the progression type is actually one of the key features of the game. Because you can alter tiebreaker to fit like any kind of play style that you like. We're going to also add something later. Before it Kickstarter is called the grooves update, which changes very basic features of tiebreaker like maybe you're not rolling dice anymore, maybe you're playing tarot cards. But changing your progression would be one of the things that uh, that you do. But Tiger comes pre installed in the wealth installed using computer terms anyway, with a couple of different progression types that you can use to advance your characters. The standard progression is, whenever you do a trick, which is to just do a regular start, but add a function to your attack at the end of it, you get a key. If you get five keys, you get an upgrade. Each and every ability has five unlock points to assess. Whenever you perform a trick, you mark a checkbox for the key nets the associated ability you associated trick with when you have your fourth trick, and that's your fourth key. Oh, wait, I have that's a typo. When you have your fifth trick and does your fifth key, you pick an MCC and keys you get cannot be used for all my points and other ability tracks and any you gained after your fifth has been gained or lost. So just switch up your your tricks in your abilities as you go or else your progression is going to stagnate just a bit. That's the standard progression type. So do starts get keys. So the lunar progression type is more for old school or OSR type. Type fam, where beating up monsters and taking your stuff is their idea of fun. So whenever you do a trick in combat, you instead gain momentum equal to your wits. But you don't work the trick on your character sheet. Instead, you'll gain new functions permanently when you find them in the form of new weapons, spells, scrolls, etc, that your GM spreads across the gaming world. So IE treasure at the end of battle, or any major milestones theme, which is finishing up a goal or permanently dealing with a major enemy you gain or if you gain loot, you mark a key. So you get your five and then you get another one. And those are two main progression types and the current early assets additions.


Ryan Boelter  47:46  

Oh that's interesting. Do you then choose one or the other one you're playing or?


Nick Butler  47:50  

Yeah, the GM says hey, we're gonna play be playing standard progression or we're going to be playing looter or whatever else we add before Kickstarter is over.


Ryan Boelter  47:58  

Nice. Cool.


Nick Butler  48:00  

That's I'm working with by friend Sita at by frenzy to Twitter on her own personal setting that's going to be released alongside tiebreaker which we are calling piety which is based on a city with several different religions and things and her her setting is going to also be the reason why I'm making a another progression for for devotion so like the more you worship a particular guide or so you get keys that way. Okay. And there'll be like new tables and things sort of things that you can get like oh, kidding. boons and things to apply to your weapons and stuff. So like you can get your weapons and chanted and stuff using by fancy does regression.


Ryan Boelter  48:47  

Nice. So what what effect does this advancement have on the narrative? Does does the mechanical benefit represents something in the story?


Nick Butler  48:56  

Yeah, actually. So like one of the best ones for that is called blending is one of the upgrades we have. So you can choose upon reaching upgrade point to expand upon your abilities by picking your source either yourself via number ability, you have one of your allies abilities, or recurring villain slash environment. So basically, your choice you can install a function from that source to an ability of your choice to install this just means that one of the tricks as you know it becomes part of your core ability. So say like, my martial arts ability, a flurry and overwhelming like if I wanted to, like say, now it's massive and I can hit everybody in the zone. When you use a trick the first time you get that for free, every every time you want to use a trick, it cost five momentum. So if I install it, it's just part of my core ability. I can massive flurry overwhelming everybody


Ryan Boelter  49:48  

all day long. Okay.


Nick Butler  49:50  

That's very cool. For instance, like if I wanted to blend instead, and say, Wow, I'm Falcons likability to like, just move like really freakin fast would be really nice. So like, I would like to put like hyper on my martial arts instead, you know, like, so that's pretty cool. So I could do that.


Ryan Boelter  50:12  

Nice. Very cool


Nick Butler  50:14  

and yeah and then we have sync which is very like much tied to like story stuff because you get the roll cliffhanger if an ally you practice together you learn how to combine the effects of one of your abilities. Failure creates a training related issue. You can try again once you deal with the issue issues or just like things that block your story progression. And they restore hope when you get over. Okay, so you spend 10 momentum each to add your ally successes to your attack and your attack triggers on your on the slowest teammates term that's involved with the with the synced upgrade.


Ryan Boelter  50:50  

Oh, very cool.


Nick Butler  50:51  

So like fans of Chrono Trigger will notice that as the duel Tech's


Ryan Boelter  50:55  

Oh, nice.


Nick Butler  50:56  

So we have to tax and tiebreaker. Hey,


Ryan Boelter  50:59  

I like that. Very cool. So, yeah, it sounds like a very interesting advancement with a lot of fun little options that you could have in there. Yeah. Cool. Well, is there anything else that you want to say about tiebreaker before we head out for the episode Nick? say


Nick Butler  51:19  

we've got tons and tons of GM stuff checked out there early SS edition look through the GM session and check out our artifacts and stuff like if you want to do like Indiana Jones, if you want to do like your various horror movies, stuff like whatever we got, like whatever you want, we're probably going to put it in there some way somehow suit what we already have there or through two groups coming up. Like for instance, like we have fear breaker that's going to be coming out with four tiebreakers one of the two groups, where like the attrition, which normally would go away after a combat or intense scene, it stays alive and your bad guys get the ability to offscreen teleport can sneak up behind you. And Harbinger's will also like, emulate jumpscares doing that. Right. So like johner emulation is going to be one of the tiebreakers strong suits. And while the core experience is definitely like more action oriented, tiebreaker is meant to be hackable through groups. Hmm. So like people that want to put out their own supplements for this game, I can just make rules for the game.


Ryan Boelter  52:28  

Mm hmm. You know, I


Nick Butler  52:29  

mean, and then write their settings because like, you know, I know people like writing settings, but they might not want to be too much into making their whole entire game or didn't camp or mechanics. Yeah. Which is part of why like, pbta is so successful, because like, it's super easy to just make a pbta hack.


Ryan Boelter  52:47  

Yeah, you know,


Nick Butler  52:48  

you just make new moves. And you're pretty much done. Yeah, right, a setting and make everything fit, whatever tropes and stuff that you were trying to go for. And you're good. Yeah, like with tiebreaker, I kind of want to do the same process. But you don't have to buy like a new whole book or design a whole full game for every single thing that you want to put out. But just write some setting books and say, Hey, we're using disagree with this group in this group, and call it a day. If you want to build a new subsystem Go for it, but, but we're very, we're very designer friendly. We're very writer friendly with this game. My dream is to put out a store, similar to the DMS Guild, but without the tomfoolery associated with that. Like, you know, like, I want to take like a very small cut. So I can pay for my network costs and stuff. Like maybe like three, three or 4%. Maybe Yeah, like, I'm not good at numbers, but I think the skill takes like, like seven to eight or something. Like,


Ryan Boelter  53:47  

they own it.


Nick Butler  53:48  

You can't like post it on other things. Yeah. Like, look, I don't care. Give me a shout out. Give me a couple of dollars. Throw it all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, you're giving me free marketing.


Amelia Antrim  54:01  

People are playing the game that goes along with it.


Nick Butler  54:04  

Yeah, so like, I want to give folks a storefront a place to make their own stuff.


Amelia Antrim  54:10  

Yeah, when I'm saying that with a j to that like, and bolts is like the grading issue with like, Genesis hacks and stuff like that to have like, I want to like own my own stuff. And, you know,


Nick Butler  54:23  

a Jay is a good friend of mine. Like, like I said, he's been very influential to how I have been approaching things on a business standpoint. Like I wouldn't have put out an early access edition. If it wasn't for RJ so like, thanks. Thanks, bro. I hope you're listening to this. Like He better be listening to this. Like he actually hooked me up with y'all so super ironic. Yeah, but like, she is very much about like getting paid for your work. Like I didn't think that my work was going to be worth money. Until I had money, you know, to like pay for all the pretty art and stuff and I want this game on stores, you know, like, I want to build a platform for other people, you know, like, because there's a lot of marginalized folks that aren't getting the spotlight that they need, you know, and like, my friend, my friend de pennyways, they they say, like the dissenter yourself from the conversation when it comes to that, but like, I can't do that until I have a platform. Yeah. You know, I'm saying to like to dissenter myself from, right, like, I want to be put into a position where I can help others. And then step aside. Mm hmm. You know, but like, that starts with getting enough money to get the art to attract the people that are outside of my small social circle. You know, I mean, like, I've got 1200 some odd followers at the moment, right? Yeah, maybe 30 or 40 of them are ever, like, actively like listening to what I'm saying. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  56:00  

right. You know, I


Nick Butler  56:00  

mean, shout out to the other like, 1100 of y'all, but like, I still love you. Like, like, my love is not dependent on you supporting my money my way worth monetarily speaking, like, I like this, you're just there, like, you know, I'm saying, but even if you come by you give me a like, every once in a while, if you're just lurking and reading, thank you, you know, like, but I wouldn't be where I am now talking on podcasts and stuff at all. Like if it wasn't for, for those folks that were following me occasionally retweeting me, or just making me look more important than I actually am by following me.


Ryan Boelter  56:37  

You know, Mm hmm.


Nick Butler  56:39  

That's like, I look like a juicy or target because I'm plus 1000. It's versus like, 40 or something.


Amelia Antrim  56:45  

Yeah, there's definitely value in things like that, like followers and likes, and like, as much as we want to be like it does that don't care? It's just numbers. No, I'm


Nick Butler  56:53  

definitely I'm definitely more influential than I was when I started, you know, one,


Amelia Antrim  56:57  

like, you know,


Nick Butler  56:59  

there's a, there's a certain power that comes to, like, you know, yeah, I really, do. I want to help people. Mm hmm. You know, and I can't do that until I get to a position where I'm, where I actually have the power to do so. Yeah. Like, I want to be like, one of my contemporaries for the ego of my part for saying that would be Brandon ditson. But for from shortfall, you know, say that guy's got 14.5 K. Yeah, you know, and he's doing amazing things. I know, agree with everything he's saying, but I love the dude, because like, he and I, like, we may not be approaching things exactly the same way. But his goals are very similar to Michael's where he wants black people to do well, right. And games, you know, I'm saying so like, like, as far as him is concerned, like, I love the dude for that, you know, I mean, but I have to get to where he's at, to, like, even have a shot. You know, I mean, like, his, like, 100,000 some dollar Kickstarters that he's been doing and stuff like, music. Like, RJ was like, but what is Yeah, like, three 3.3 something k led to like, 30,000 they like he gets to keep, like, most of that, you know, like after he pays his artists and everyone else who's helping him because he didn't even print it. Like, he just did his stuff as PDF. And he's like, I want to be at stores. You know? So like, my goals are what? loftier than his, you know, like, I've got some ambition, but I need help. Like, I like I hate begging but like, I gotta humble myself a little bit because like, Look, man, I can't do it without without support. So like, please buy the game, buy some merch. I'm gonna be up front like the merchant doesn't give me as much money as buying the game because markup and like print on demand stuff like that justice ball bit of a side sidetrack into the business side of things. printing on demand is a little cheaper than like just buying like hundreds of T shirts at a low buy you might buy but it still cost me money. And I only get like three or $4 a shirt. Yeah, the shirts are more for like advertising reasons. So please buy a shirt like so tell people about my stuff. But But buy the game because I get more money off of that. And the more copies of the game I sell the quicker I'm going to be able to get the art and the layout and editing


Amelia Antrim  59:16  

and playing a game and then wearing a shirt.


Ryan Boelter  59:19  



Nick Butler  59:20  

I don't know my shirts look really good. I think you might have an equal amount of fun.


Nick Butler  59:30  

Do both got a friend that did both god bless him. He did his birthday too. And I feel bad about my man Jamie bought a shirt bought the game and I was like, oh god bless you. 30 bucks for me. Like that was dope. Yeah, you know, that's, that's what it is what it is, man. I've got big dreams and a lot of people that are making the dreams in my circle and like I'm not trying to be jealous or anything. I just want to be in a position right now. help folks. thing is


Amelia Antrim  1:00:01  

this like it's not a finite resource like other people succeeding doesn't stop me from succeeding. So like, I definitely support people doing those cool things and like, getting it but like, I totally I like, I want to be a part of it.


Nick Butler  1:00:17  

Yeah, just start on Monday my way, and I'll do what I can to help everyone. Yeah,


Ryan Boelter  1:00:21  

exactly. Yeah, totally,


Amelia Antrim  1:00:22  



Nick Butler  1:00:24  

Well, that's my that's my goal in the store, like when my name gets big all over ships around me flow too.


Ryan Boelter  1:00:31  

Right? Absolutely. Well, Nick, I'm asleep. Yeah.


Ryan Boelter  1:00:41  

Well, Nick, thank you so much for joining us to talk about tiebreaker. Can you remind everyone where they can find you online? At


Nick Butler  1:00:50  

follow my blade on Twitter. You could also find me in the gamma tiebreaker RPG calm.


Unknown Speaker  1:00:57  

Like, you know, I


Nick Butler  1:00:59  

spent a lot of money I get to that domain


Amelia Antrim  1:01:01  

might as well visited.


Nick Butler  1:01:03  

Please visit the site and we put some work into that. And by we I mean me because it's just me at the moment.


Unknown Speaker  1:01:11  

Yeah, I


Nick Butler  1:01:11  

mean, so holla at me, I'm around join the discord, discord, links are anywhere attached to my social media or on the website.


Ryan Boelter  1:01:19  

There you go. Well, thank


Amelia Antrim  1:01:20  

you so much for waiting. Yes, playing the game. Finally. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with us. And thank you to everyone for tuning in.


Ryan Boelter  1:01:33  

Thanks again, everyone for joining us for our tiebreaker series. We had a lot of fun with this system and really went into some interesting places with our discussion. So I hope you enjoyed that. I just wanted to remind everyone to check out my A Tale of twinkle in our livestream again, in about three weeks or so from the day this episode releases starting on January 8 2021, will be streaming every other Friday. From that point on until the story is done. For now you can get caught up on our past streams. If you missed out either at twitch kimera dot games, or YouTube cameri games. It is a lot of fun, and my cast is absolutely phenomenal. And I think you would really enjoy it. So definitely check that out. If you have a chance. Remember, we have next week off so everyone please enjoy your holidays safely. wear a mask, keep your distance and we'll be hopeful that 2021 will be a much better year than this one has been. We are very, very grateful that you are spending your time with us here during these times. It really does mean the world to us. But if you do have time to spare for more podcasts, I really wanted to give a special Shoal blurbs shout out to the cast of a horror Borealis, which is also on this ferry network where they are playing through Stephen King's it using Christine priuses hack of monster of the week. Back to dairy This is a mini series that they're titling the losers a love story. Losers is the the name of the group of kids from the ad franchise if you're not familiar with it. And it's a love story, isn't it? It's a horror story. But also it's it's focused around the relationships of these kids and and then all grown up and coming back to dairy and trying to end this menace once and for all. Content warnings galore though, it's extremely spooky at times. There is a lot of adult language every single episode and some adult situations here and there. And my goodness, a lot of a lot of potentially triggering content. So please listen safely. We do add content warnings at the beginning of every episode as well in the show notes and we're starting to add timestamps to particularly troubling content. So that way you can you can skip right over those if you one listen to something spooky but not that something intensely spooky in some situations perhaps. Now I do happen to be the sound designer for this project. So it would be fantastic if you could check it out and hear that project brought to life. And you know, leave a review maybe if you like what you hear or just or just let me know or let the cast of the show know how they're doing or how you like it because Cuz we we love hearing from you, whether it's on Twitter or whether it's through an official review of sorts. Ah, so I think that's enough of a side tangent for me with this fairly impromptu show blurb This is what happens when you leave me alone, Amelia, it's okay. But take care everyone, keep making those amazing people, and we'll see you next year.


Ryan Boelter  1:05:55  

Character Character Creation Cast is a production of the one shot Podcast Network and can be found online at www dot Character Creation head to the website to get more information on our hosts this show and even our press kit. Character Creation Cast can also be found on Twitter at Creation Cast or on our Discord server at discord Character Creation I am one of your hosts Ryan Boelter and I can be found on twitter at Learn Neptune or online at Lord Neptune calm. Our other hosts Amelia Antrim can be found on twitter at ginger reckoning. Music for this episode is used with a Creative Commons license, or with permission from the podcast they originated from. Further information can be found within the show notes. Our main theme music is hero remix by Steve combs, and it's used with a Creative Commons license. This podcast is owned by us under Creative Commons. This episode was edited by Ryan Boelter. Further information for the game systems used and today's guests can be found in the show notes. If you'd like to leave us a rating or review. We have links to various preview platforms out there including Apple podcasts in our show notes. Also, check the show notes for links to our other projects. Thanks for joining us. I remember we find that the best part of any role playing game is character creation. So go out there and create some amazing people. We will see you next time.


Amelia Antrim  1:07:41  

Now we got to read some show blurbs show blurbs


Unknown Speaker  1:07:45  

show show but


Amelia Antrim  1:07:47  

show blurbs. Character Creation Cast is hosted by the one shot Podcast Network. If you enjoyed our show, visit one shot podcast comm where you'll find other great shows like campaign campaign is an actual play podcast exploring long form role playing the current campaign sky


Ryan Boelter  1:08:05  

Jack's takes place in an original setting. Inspired by the music of the Decemberists, folk tales and classic adventure fiction. Join Liz Anderson, john Patrick Cohen, Tyler Davis, Johnny O'Meara and gamester James d'amato, as they tell a tale of Darien sky pirates. Also it's basically an elaborate retelling of Weekend at Bernie's. Just search for campaign or James tomato on iTunes, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app. He Okay,


Amelia Antrim  1:08:39  

Ryan, I'm going to apologize in advance. My brother's here with his very barky Chihuahua who is barking at my puppy who is embarking back it said to our also my mom was like, I'm gonna be vacuuming. Is that okay? And I was like, I guess.


Ryan Boelter  1:08:56  

Okay, so I mean, I'll clean it up. It's fine.


Amelia Antrim  1:08:58  

So like, at least my children are at home. That's the best I can do for you.


Nick Butler  1:09:04  

My kids. My dogs are home. So I also want you guys for assembly


Amelia Antrim  1:09:10  

for dogs and a mom vacuuming so maybe


Unknown Speaker  1:09:18  

we'll see if there's still time. I'll make it work. I'll


Ryan Boelter  1:09:20  

make it work.


Nick Butler  1:09:22  

Yeah, so I was like, screw that. I'm gonna make my own casino with blackjack and hookers, right? Yes. I miss you. Please come back again. No, no. Yeah.


Amelia Antrim  1:09:40  

What is um, what is unique about this game? Ryan? Did I skip your question? Or did what did you do yours already?


Ryan Boelter  1:09:47  

I did not.


Amelia Antrim  1:09:49  

When you do your or do you feel like we did that already?


Ryan Boelter  1:09:51  

Well, let's cover it. Let's see what happens. So


Amelia Antrim  1:09:57  

let's see where it goes.


Nick Butler  1:10:01  

What happens?


Nick Butler  1:10:07  

Kenny sees?


Ryan Boelter  1:10:11  

No, no.


Nick Butler  1:10:15  



Ryan Boelter  1:10:18  

It's an untapped market. Right? Yeah. That's true.


Amelia Antrim  1:10:26  

I mean, like, we totally could put these out. But then everyone would have to see all the times where I like, get up because I left my glasses over there or like, go to my closet to get a sweater or


Ryan Boelter  1:10:39  

that's what editing is for. I've got editing software now. I mean, maybe, maybe


Nick Butler  1:10:46  

right here gets this podcast to go on YouTube. Call it a headset.


Amelia Antrim  1:10:52  

We'll be sure to credit you when we finally do. Please do


Nick Butler  1:11:05  

this for Christmas. The girlfriend says cool. For me, thank you.


Ryan Boelter  1:11:16  

But yeah,


Nick Butler  1:11:17  

I forgot the question. I was like


Amelia Antrim  1:11:24  

it's evil Ryan that is always trying to get me to watch DBZ so shout out to you,


Unknown Speaker  1:11:29  

right. Yeah,


Nick Butler  1:11:30  

he's got good taste.


Ryan Boelter  1:11:33  

At least he's not trying to get you to watch TMT. So,


Amelia Antrim  1:11:36  

no, that's true. That's dude.


Nick Butler  1:11:38  

That's no watch that to watch my two teenage mutant ninja turtles.


Amelia Antrim  1:11:43  

Shut it down shows our


Unknown Speaker  1:11:46  

Ninja Turtles


Amelia Antrim  1:11:49  

to here. Here's the thing. Here's the reason I hate them. My brothers loved those. My brothers never let me do whatever they were doing, and everything like that. Or I wouldn't get to do what I wanted to do because my brothers were doing their thing and there were two of them and one of me. So it's, it all kind of goes together. It's just


Nick Butler  1:12:12  

I have happy memories. Charles, I like almost drowned in Atlanta when I was like nine. Oh, yeah. Like, my grandmother bless her. She she has this very like, wry sense of humor where I wake up in my hospital bed with a tub of water and it's today and inside a tub of water is a Donald's Hello, Ashton figure. This was swims. She's like that's what it looks like. What are you doing right?


Nick Butler  1:12:47  

Okay, I almost drowned but I got a free action figure.


Ryan Boelter  1:12:54  

That's awesome.


Amelia Antrim  1:12:54  

I know. Ninja Turtle boy that like shot a little tiny pizzas. And I liked that one.


Ryan Boelter  1:13:02  

Remember that one fondly? Yeah.


Nick Butler  1:13:05  

It's okay. I'm a huge Piccolo fanboy. So like, saying suck it though. Hey, says this stupid broken.


Ryan Boelter  1:13:13  

Bad. Yeah, so


Nick Butler  1:13:16  

like all the fanboys fight me?


Unknown Speaker  1:13:22  

That's Yeah, I


Nick Butler  1:13:24  

should be like more familiar with actually getting people through this process to Syria? Like that's only a mild exaggeration.


Unknown Speaker  1:13:34  

I'm pretty lucky in that regard.


Nick Butler  1:13:38  

Like maybe like 50. So I've done like 10 tables? Oh, yeah. I don't know, by your metric. If it's a large ratio. It's definitely an exaggeration of some extent.


Ryan Boelter  1:13:53  

It's in the ballpark? Yeah.


Nick Butler  1:13:58  

Yeah, kind of put an optimistic skin on it.


Ryan Boelter  1:14:01  

Uh huh. That's bad. Let's


Nick Butler  1:14:03  

get this game is really about rescanning stuff, and making it fit. So let's go to character. I actually had about 20 minutes, okay.


Amelia Antrim  1:14:21  

I like that you can lean into the mic for that part to like, not only do you do the voice be like, really close.


Ryan Boelter  1:14:29  

I gotta get close. So I can see the record button too. Cuz like if I'm here, I still have to tilt my head because it's way in the upper left hand corner.


Amelia Antrim  1:14:38  

See it? you hover over it? And then when you say it, you


Ryan Boelter  1:14:41  

click. I don't want to mess it up. I don't want to mess it up. Because like me, my hand will move just enough. It'll be like two pixels off. I know. Yeah.


Amelia Antrim  1:14:53  

No, we'll record the whole thing and then we'll have to do it over because you won't notice.


Ryan Boelter  1:14:57  

But you know also I do it because It's nice to lean in. Get that nice little extra ASMR


Amelia Antrim  1:15:05  

if that vocal fry that good get that vocal fry


Ryan Boelter  1:15:07  

vocal fry clicky Whoa, okay, that's a waveform. But before we get to that we have


Unknown Speaker  1:15:22  

a little bit of


Ryan Boelter  1:15:24  

rice in my throat. Oh no. Chinese food.


Amelia Antrim  1:15:30  

Oh, that's really good.


Ryan Boelter  1:15:31  

Oh so good but no


Amelia Antrim  1:15:34  

Chinese food and so long. I can't wait for all this to be the first have some Chinese food


Ryan Boelter  1:15:46  

huh all right call to action


Amelia Antrim  1:15:52  

just gonna like trying to read this review real quick before I have to like actually read it mess it up on


Ryan Boelter  1:16:01  

cooking up the people like


Unknown Speaker  1:16:07  

oh my god


Amelia Antrim  1:16:11  

oh let's hit on actual plays here hmm Did you see the release podcasts like commenting on a Brendan lancom bettas post in those like character creation sucks. It's the worst part of games and like I commented from our account and was like, rude.


Ryan Boelter  1:16:32  

What do you do? It only sucks because you've never had me on the show.


Amelia Antrim  1:16:37  

Never had you on the show? Because apparently you think it sucks. So I


Ryan Boelter  1:16:42  

know, they're really cool people. I played What was it? Um, so a game where you was it Marie Kondo the organization, maybe it's, I forget the name of the actual game, but it's a play on that. And it's all about you adventure by trying to fit the proper items within your slots your backpack. And you have to choose which items to keep and which items to discard on your adventure.


Amelia Antrim  1:17:17  

Only things that bring you joy.


Ryan Boelter  1:17:19  

Yeah, and depending on how much space you have left, depending on what items you have, depending on all that sort of stuff. It shows it gives you a results of whether you survive or not like your outcome. Oh, that's where it was really interesting. Like we we we beat the enemy. We we did perfect. We got the loot, we are on our way home, and my character fell off the cliff and died at the bottom. Everybody else made it home safely. That's what but even though I died, I had a good outcome. Yeah. So like, um, I was a paladin, I think and I went, I ascended to heaven as like a hero of the realm or something like that. Um, so it was like a good outcome for me. Even though I died. So it was just really interesting storytelling.


Amelia Antrim  1:18:12  

That is that's games are so cool. So cool.


Ryan Boelter  1:18:19  

You caught my typo. A professional. You are


Nick Butler  1:18:27  

a good washing state said like a lot recently. Okay, like yoga. Pegasus was done showed me the protagonist guy. Uh huh. Just hot blooded. And just like my friends.


Ryan Boelter  1:18:45  



Nick Butler  1:18:46  

yeah. got really good at anything other than just being the hero.


Amelia Antrim  1:18:52  

Remind me next time, please cut this out. Because we're gonna surprise everyone. I don't know what game we're doing next time. Oh, we're doing a lot with Jeff. But I feel like I need to make a himbo Okay, sorry.


Amelia Antrim  1:19:03  



Nick Butler  1:19:05  

We're gonna wait two weeks. That's


Ryan Boelter  1:19:08  

nice. Yeah, it's gonna be fun.


Amelia Antrim  1:19:10  

Yeah, I had a lot of fun last time, he is excited to like


Nick Butler  1:19:14  

to shout you guys out. Like when I'm on his show. Like, hey, if you want to do like the character creation stuff that we did before this. Yeah, look at this podcast, and we'll see us do it. They're awesome. And now the play fun


Amelia Antrim  1:19:30  

party. That movie was aggressively mediocre.


Unknown Speaker  1:19:37  



Amelia Antrim  1:19:39  

it was like so I took my kids to see it. and was like, Oh, God, I can't believe I have to sit through this movie. And it was like, I sat through it. And I was like, this was not as bad as I expected it to be. But it wasn't any better than I expected it to be. It was fine. Like, would I be excited to watch it again? No. Would I hate to watch it again? Also? No. It was fine.


Amelia Antrim  1:20:04  

Like, as far as movies for kids to go, it could have been so much worse. Mm hmm. I feel like detective Pikachu was still better. But it was fine. It was fine. That's my rate. like five out of 10


Ryan Boelter  1:20:22  

I am recording Oh, add a little bit of a late click there but I think it'd be fine. It's a very small e at the end there. So whatever. Ash that that recording, like, drained me in such a good way. Like, I'm,


Unknown Speaker  1:20:44  

I'm tired. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker  1:20:46  

I feel Yeah.


Amelia Antrim  1:20:49  

But also like, I slept until, like, I gotta go like, play with my puppy. And then my mom, like right before we started texted me SOS since like, went running. I was like, what's wrong? And she's like, Greg's coming Wednesday instead of Friday. So we have to get the whole house cleaned. And I was like, I'm like, uh, Greg is my younger brother. I'm like, okay, he lives alone. Like, it's him and his dog. He doesn't care if the house is dusty.


Ryan Boelter  1:21:13  

Know, hardly anybody does.


Amelia Antrim  1:21:16  

But um, so then, while we were recording, she also texted a whole list of chores that need to get done.


Ryan Boelter  1:21:22  

I have never gone to somebody's house and and said, wow. Why are these so these people are horrible slops? Horrible.


Amelia Antrim  1:21:32  

Yeah. Oh, and then Dan and I had a whole fight about the kids school today, because he wants to send them back.


Ryan Boelter  1:21:39  

Please say


Amelia Antrim  1:21:42  

so. Really? What I'm saying is I just want a nap. But I don't think I can. Yeah.


Ryan Boelter  1:21:46  

Well, that sucks.


Amelia Antrim  1:21:47  

I know. Anyway,


Ryan Boelter  1:21:49  

cool. All right. Let's get this cold open. Cold open.


Amelia Antrim  1:21:54  

About that episode. 34.2.


Ryan Boelter  1:21:56  

Yeah, that I haven't finished anything yet.


Amelia Antrim  1:22:00  

I don't know. My philosophy with 2020 is like if it gets done eventually. That's great.


Ryan Boelter  1:22:07  

date today, though, because I've got the next episode of users love story. And that, that's like, a love letter to sound design. So good. And I've got to get that out by Friday. So because I'm getting paid for that work. Okay, already here we go. Five count. He.


Amelia Antrim  1:22:37  

I am recording.


Ryan Boelter  1:22:38  

Me too. Saying bro.


Amelia Antrim  1:22:41  

Nailed it. Yes.


Ryan Boelter  1:22:45  

Step one done.


Amelia Antrim  1:22:48  

I think we're like halfway to being total professionals.


Ryan Boelter  1:22:51  

I know. Right?


Nick Butler  1:22:55  

You can find him on Twitter. I believe it's still rookie zero Let me double check. Because that was his post his old name on his website.


Nick Butler  1:23:13  

Wow, I can't spell. Anyway, he will come up later. But yeah, Aaron Clooney is cool. Yeah, and I've definitely said but like I've got a little bit of me I mean


Nick Butler  1:23:34  

it's definitely a skill like not 10 points is straight probably like eight you know enough to bang a dude but like enough to be like, Hey, you know, that guy's handsome?


Amelia Antrim  1:23:43  

Like, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm pretty straight, but like, we could talk about Obi Wan Kenobi.


Nick Butler  1:23:49  

For me, it's the Vin Diesel. Yeah, like a pointer to lower.


Amelia Antrim  1:24:05  

And we can hit stop.


Ryan Boelter  1:24:07  

All right.


Nick Butler  1:24:08  

We're in peace out. We did.


Unknown Speaker  1:24:10  



Transcribed by